Diana Allam

In a rapidly evolving global defence landscape, staying ahead requires not just advanced technology but also the ability to adapt and innovate based on real-world experiences. Thales, a leader in defence solutions, exemplifies this approach through its integration of feedback from current conflicts, substantial industrial investments, and cutting-edge AI applications. In an exclusive interview with Hervé Dammann, Thales’s Executive Vice-President of Land and Air Systems, we delve into how the company is enhancing its army capabilities, investing in future-proof technologies, and ensuring ethical AI deployment in defence systems. Dammann also sheds light on Thales’s latest breakthroughs in naval air defence and the company’s strategic goals for the coming years. This conversation reveals the strategic thinking and technological advancements that position Thales at the forefront of the defence industry.

Thales prides itself on leveraging RETEX* (feedback from current conflicts) to refine its army capabilities. Can you share a specific example of how feedback from a recent conflict directly influenced a significant improvement in one of your solutions, and what measurable impact has this had on its performance in the field?
*Named after the French for “Feedback” (RETour d’EXpérience), RETEX is a method that helps improve defence systems by assessing how they respond to operational realities and suggesting solutions to any shortcomings.

So of course, let’s say what is pretty new in the context of the armies overall is that I think there are a couple of things.

First is that we need to consider or you need to see that Thales is able to provide almost any kind of capabilities for armies. So, anything that they need from engaging the combat to protect the overall assets or let’s say the soldiers to train them is something that we can provide.

And, given the evolution of the tensions across the world, we have now the capabilities to leverage on RETEX coming from the battlefield or from some battlefield environment across the world to feed directly of what we call the product policy.

So the way we develop and the way we put on the market some solutions so to give a couple of examples in that respect, I could certainly name everything which is related to the automation of the battlefield for drones, for example. And we have launched a couple of weeks ago in France an initiative which is called the “drone warfare”, which is aiming at really gathering various providers of drones. And we, at Thales, are making sure that all those kind of drones in the battlefield are interoperable, which is a key aspect coming from RETEX that can talk together, all together and directed to a C2 which is a common C2 that we can provide. This is really something which is inherited.

And the second one that I would like to mention in that respect is air defence because we have seen especially in some conflicts like in the east of Europe, that air defence is becoming a really important as an asset, as a military asset in order to protect the citizens from attacks from their enemies. Therefore, we are really pushing for developing more adaptive, efficient solutions and global solution in air defence, covering the various layers they need to protect their citizens.

Thales has been heavily investing in and expanding its industrial capabilities, particularly in areas like radars and night vision equipment. With the rapid pace of technological advancements, how does Thales ensure that these investments not only keep up with current needs but also anticipate future requirements? Can you highlight a recent breakthrough that exemplifies this forward-thinking approach?

First, Thales overall in the past four years has invested a large amount of what we call CapEx “capital expenditure”, close to 750 million euros.

We have to increase our production capabilities, and you have mentioned rightly some production of some products in which we are investing in to ramp up the production. For instance, radars, and I would say overall of electronic equipment including night vision goggles, but not only that as well, but we call it the binocular equipment, but I could say also about munitions where we were producing some years ago, something like 20,000 munitions in France a year and now we are ramping up the production capability up to 80,000 in the following couple of years. Regarding the radars, typically, we were producing a little bit less than 12 radars a couple of years ago. We have doubled the production this year and we are targeting to increase the production rate at 30 or even above. And this is not only in France, this is as well as in some other regions in which we are operating in the UK, Netherlands, in Belgium as far as we are concerned for my activities. And this is where we are today because of the market demand and the context in which defence is operating. We are taking our own responsibility in that respect.

Thales is at the forefront of integrating AI into its Air Defence and Air Surveillance systems. AI can be a double-edged sword, offering significant enhancements but also posing new risks. How does Thales address the ethical and security challenges associated with AI deployment in defence systems, and what safeguards are in place to prevent potential misuse?

In AI we could say many things but I’m trying to summarise. We in Thales, have always advocated for what we call trusted AI. Meaning that we don’t clearly want AI to take the lead over the decision and we want the human to be to be kept in the loop of the decision, which is something very important for us. And hence, we have launched an initiative again which is more than initiative, it is really a way to build a network, to work across the group because in Thales we are really at the forefront of AI. We have more than 600 experts in AI across the group and we have decided to have an AI factory. At Thales we develop algorithms in systems to be implemented in the battlefield, at the same time we are also keeping an accelerating in adding AI in every of our sensors, like radars that we mentioned, I will come back on that, optronic pods or any radio communication products. In that case, AI is ready-made to enhance the performance of the product and to help humans to make a decision or to accelerate its capability to make a decision, but notwithstanding the fact that the human will still be in the loop.

In terms of risks, we are really putting in the market trusted AI, firstly. Secondly, you have cybersecurity risk. So of course, AI is software, so it introduces a vulnerability in your system and being Thales, a very large company in terms of cybersecurity, I think that we can master much more easily as well that kind of risk.

In the domain of Naval Air Defence, Thales has introduced new technologies that set it apart from competitors. Can you provide insights into a specific technological innovation that has recently been introduced? How does this innovation enhance operational effectiveness and provide a tactical edge in complex maritime environments?

First of all, the navies across the world are really put under pressure, globally speaking, and this is really the case in the Red Sea to set an example today. So of course, here coming again back to the first question, we are really leveraging on the RETEX coming from the many navies we have as customers across the globe in order to implement new solutions. I would divide that into two various aspects.
Firstly, we are really providing those navies with state-of-the-art radar sensors capabilities, so what we call ESA capabilities. So, enhanced capabilities to detect very small targets like drones for example and here we have what are called NS families: internal radars or the SF (SEA FIRE) family internal radars, which is the first set of innovation that we put on the market for the navies, with the second one coming from the RETEX. So, when you are in the Red Sea, you have a lot of drones which you need to detect and to treat as a threat and instead of using very costly missiles, we are therefore now proposing to the navies to use less expensive effectors like rockets for example, or we are even working on the directed energy weapons which were like the laser or RF technologies, which will really lower the cost of destroying, the threat, compared to “the old way of losing an expensive missile to do so”.

What differentiates Thales’s solutions from those of other competitors in the market?

That’s a difficult question. I must say that I think that Thales, you know, it’s a combination of many factors. So first of all, Thales is a dual company, so really leveraging our presence in defense, and for the armies we are a provider of choice, a provider of trust for more than 70 Nations across the globe, on one hand. Then, on the civil side, we are developing a lot of technologies, some of them as have I mentioned by myself during the discussion like in AI, in cybersecurity, so really that combination is helping Thales to be really balanced and to provide technologies in the right manner to the defence.

Secondly, of course, having that very large base of customers across the globe, we can leverage that very strong and international organisation across the globe.

We can leverage on RETEX coming from those armies, and this is truly important to integrate, let’s say the RETEX coming from the operations into our solutions, into our products. Finally, with the talents we have in Thales, I think that we can differentiate from the others. So, it’s a combination of technologies, talents, people and the international spread of Thales across the globe- the international reach of Thales.

Looking ahead, what are the key milestones and strategic goals for Thales in the next few years?

The strategic goals, we always want to have a kind of advantage edge compared to the competition. So, we are really working in Thales and I’m talking about defence at maintaining what I call that very strong continuum between components, products and systems. So, it’s not only, in defense, about providing only the platform, it’s not only about providing a piece of software, it’s about being able to maintain that continuum between the components, the core component that you need to make your products in quantum, in AI and so on, up to the systems, and integrating various parts together. So for the benefit of the armies, this idea is really what we are looking at and where we are aiming.

How does Thales plan to stay ahead of emerging threats and evolving defence needs?

Discussing with your customers, they say the one facing the threats, it is not Thales in the end, so the ones facing the threats are the armies, so here we are the receptors or the armed forces, let’s say, globally speaking. So, the more we are going to be in contact with them, the more we are across the globe, as we do today, the better RETEX is going to be, and the easier it’s going to be for us to integrate those requirements into our solutions for the benefit.